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Report 606
Report #606 Skillset: Telepathy Skill: None Org: Shofangi Status: Completed Sept 2011 Furies' Decision: We will implement solution 1. Problem: Telepathy is by no means unworkable but still lacks a great deal utility and specifically illusion ability compared to its sibling skill telekinesis. With the advent of more advanced systems the illusions that telepathy relies upon are becoming less and less effective. Telekinesis has an advantage in this regard because it is able to deliver illusions under stun which gives the illusion time to work in a manner of speaking, or under blackout which enables a one line illusion to act as a two line illusion. 0 R: 0 Solution #1: Cause the hallucinations ability to stun for 1s similar to TK trip (note that this is not a change to the hallucination affliction but to the ability, so just as trip delivers two afflictions stun and sprawl this would deliver hallucinations and stun). 0 R: 0 Solution #2: Add anorexia to to telepathy to allow a telepath to stall curing without total reliance on illusions (and as a less powerful equivalent to throatlock). 0 R: 0 Solution #3: Cause deadening to prevent focus mind until cured instead of its balance lengthening effect. Kombu should always cure deadening first if this is implemented. Player Comments: ---on 9/16 @ 21:48 writes: I can't support this report until the affliction capabilities of Aeromancers are toned down in relation to Telepathy. 8+ afflictions at once currently, and these changes will make them stronger in overwhelming someone with afflictions. Will follow up soon with a comment explaining my reasoning, have to double check several things. ---on 9/18 @ 04:48 writes: With the exception of the 3rd solution these solutions all have direct TK equivalents (trip and throatlock) so basically TK aeros already have these capabilities and aren't running rampant with it from what I've seen. That being said this report does consist of strong buffs and so naturally good combos are going to arise with these new abilities. For example a pyro tp would be able to give anorexia slickness and asthma, geos and aquas will be able to stun spam like TKs do, and as you pointed out an aero will be able to stack mental affs to a greater degree. My point stands that the first two solutions are (arguably inferior) analogies to TK skills, if the TKs of these guilds are balanced then raising TPs to that level shouldn't have an effect, if they overpowered then it's an attribute of the demesne itself and that should be looked in to. ---on 9/19 @ 16:49 writes: While I would love to see Telepaths actually able to stick afflictions, any changes to Telepathy would make Aeromancer Telepaths even better than they are now. As it is now, an Aeromancer Telepath can hit an opponent with 8-9 herb/focus/smoke cures on someone at once, usually 8 if they time it correctly, 9 if they use reality and get a tick lined up. I'd far prefer any changes to Telepathys affliction capabilities to be done after the afflicting strength of Aeromancers is toned down. The contributing factors to 8 afflictions at once: beast/epilepsy(herb/focus), two telepathy afflictions(herb/focus), miasma(herb/focus/possibly smoke/purgative), southwind(herb/focus/purgative), cloudcoils(smoke), piercedlimbs(smoke), phantoms(herb/focus). Two of the afflictions are an assured 3-4 seconds for herb balance(cloudcoils/piercedlimbs), four masked afflictions, and the list of afflictions given by miasma is varied but all are herb cures, with four being solely herb cures, 1 purgative cured only. The Aeromancers demesne afflicts with 5 afflictions at once, 4 of them being herb/focus, 1 being purgative(chills from blizzard). Then adding in beast, phantoms, and two hits from Telepathy, and even with both herb and focus balance being used simultaneously, that's 8 seconds to fully cure up most times. Add in the chance to stun from hallucinations, stupidity, an illusion wasting herb balance, being off balance(thus unable to diagnose for the herb only cures), and illwind slowing balance recovery. Bringing it to nearly 10+ seconds to fully cure, and all this can be done every ten seconds, sometimes without even trying. I myself have been able to line up my Telepathy attacks with demesne tic, without even trying on multiple occasions. Everything I just pointed out is how it works currently, now adding in these changes, it becomes to much. I myself can only max out at 3 afflictions currently, 4 once I have spellcasting in Beastmastery, 5 with chills from my demesne. Four seconds without demesne hitting, 5 with s ---on 9/19 @ 16:50 writes: The parts that were cut off: Four seconds without demesne hitting, 5 with stun, to cure both afflictions from Telepathy and the one from claws. I'm okay with Aeromancer Telepaths having an advantage on afflicting compared to other Telepaths in other guilds, but their advantage is pretty big already. Sorry if it seems a tad disjointed and long, but hopefully the point is gotten across. ---on 9/19 @ 16:55 writes: In response to your comment Wobou. At no point did I say that TK Aeromancers were balanced, TK on its own merits is a bit unbalanced, but that's not the problem at hand. Also, it's not possibly to stun spam, as there is an immunity period, which gives the person time to start curing, nor does stun stack. Slickness and asthma have two different cures. Yes, the problem lies with the demesne, but it's only noticeable in connection with Telepathy. I believe Telepathy is a very balanced, but weak skillset. On it's own, people are more than capable of keeping up with the afflictions, but with Aeromancy, even trying to run adds on afflictions(rainbowclouds), with the chance to be thrown back in(squalls). ---on 9/20 @ 10:48 writes: I'd actually support giving a stun upon afflicting with hallucinations, from any source (i.e. change to the affliction, not just the ability - thus helping Runists too!). Definate no to solution 2 though (Would overly buff pyros too much, imo). ---on 9/21 @ 00:42 writes: Okay a few things. First, I disagree that TK is unbalanced. I think TK is at about the perfect level of balance, so all further comments stem from that perspective. Second, about Aeromancer afflictions: It's important to keep in mind that, especially with Telepathy, the majority of those afflictions have a focus mind and herb cure, thus it's not as overwhelming as superficially seems the case. The math in Neos' comment is correct, and an Aero TP maxes out at 10 afflictions at once assuming Phantom, Reality, Thunderbird, TP combo, and a demesne hit. Blizzard is purgative though, and there is no defense stripping effect in Aero demesne, so likely all it will do is strip fire. So that's 9 herb afflictions, with ~7 of them being focusable (depending on what Miasma does). Assuming trans Discipline and neutral herb balance (1.5 second focus and herb balance), all afflictions can be cured by the time Super channel is regained. And if not, then certainly all by the time of the next demesne hit. Note: This is assuming 1v1. With illusions thrown into the mix, then depending on luck and how good the opponent's anti-illusion is, afflictions can begin to stack. Further, an Aeromancer demesne does not offer as much movement hindering compared to Geo demesnes especially, and it offers very little sip pressure. ---on 9/21 @ 00:42 writes: Now with all that said, Aero demesne is very powerful, and any changes would need to be looked at to make sure it isn't too overwhelming. For the solutions in specific, I am reticent to support solution 2 due to the slickness + asthma + anorexia combo in a Pyromancer demesne. Solution 3 is a rather radical change, but theoretically, it may act as a nerf in some respects for 1v1 at least. Currently, there is a chance that an opponent may focus mind under deadening, thus suffering the increased recovery. If solution 3 goes in, it will force an herb cure, but they'll know pretty quickly if they have the affliction or not, so shouldn't lose too much focus time. Likely this will be too powerful in groups, though. Solution 1 then seems the best, with one change: change Hallucinations to Id only, or at least the stunning effect from Id only. It would give TPs a bit of hindering and greater variety in illusions. Geomancers and Aquamancers would be able to stun a large portion of the time (as TKs can do currently), but not continually, of course. ---on 9/22 @ 13:51 writes: Helping runists in that way sounds good to me Raeri the only problems are there are a fair number of other sources. I'll list the ones that I know of: Aeonics echoes, druid pollen, harmonics sapphire, miasma, heretic/infidel, investable angel attack, moon ray in astrology, greywhispers, phantom, pyro salamanders, justchorale in starhymn (I think), an colourmaelstrom in glamours. Many of those I wouldn't have a problem with (angels can already deliver stun + sprawl anyway, heretic and infidel affs are fairly weak, rays in general are relatively weak, etc.) however changing the affliction itself would give a bunch of these passives a chance to stun which seems like a bit too much. @Neos: I just don't see why a whole skillset should be held back due to a guild that already has the ability to do what you're fearing. I personally think that the second and third solutions may be too powerful but that the first is a reasonable compromise that will greatly assist telepaths without causing insane overpoweredness in and of itself. ---on 9/22 @ 18:55 writes: I'm 100% behind helping Telepaths actually stick afflictions, I'm against boosting Aeromancer Telepaths. I don't believe solution 1 will fix the problem of actually sticking afflictions, as the opponent still has 5 seconds to cure two, max four afflictions from the non-Aero Telepath, with both focus mind and herbs. 1s stun, possibly 2 seconds wasted on illusions, eat pennyroyal(since they know it's hallucinations and what herb to use), focus mind, all clear. Total time is 4 or so seconds, with 2 seconds to spare. Now compare that to an Aeromancer, where they already can delay curing and diagnosing pretty well. Solution 2: regular Telepaths have no smoke cured afflictions that are cured before anorexia, it will also give Aeromancers three assured smoke cured afflictions, on top of their four masked afflictions. The same effect could be achieved by illusions. I like Solution three, but it wont change much, as once they see they cant use focus mind, they eat kombu, and done, compared to Aeromancers, who can hit with three kombu cured afflictions at once, along with four of their afflictions being masked, so theyll only be able to cure cloudcoils and piercedlimbs, and nothing else until they are able to diagnose. More to possibly come. ---on 9/23 @ 03:27 writes: Solution 1 sounds fine, as long as it adds a stun immunity for a short time ---on 9/23 @ 03:29 writes: Consider that for a Telepath, sticking afflictions isn't the main goal, getting ego down is. The afflictions are just meant to last long enough to help delay ego curing. For Aeromancers, the large amount of afflictions helps this, but this is a sacrifice for doing very little direct damage to divert sipping to health and a comparitive lack of movement hindering. In my experience, I've been largely unable to stack afflictions as an Aeromancer TP barring bad curing and/or willpower drain. ---on 9/26 @ 19:40 writes: I like solution 1 the most, I'm unsure why people are against the anorexia/slickness/asthma combo as anorexia is a focus cure and can be cured off with focus leading to slickness and asthma being cured after. That being said, I think solution 1 will do more to help slow down curing than the others